Monitors Continued
For me, this road was a long and winding one. Two years ago I swapped my 5 year old HP L2335 for a HP LP2465. I preferred the S-PVA blacks to the S-IPS, and it didn’t have that slight pink tone the L2335 was famous for. A year later I purchased a second LP2465 from Newegg, as they were having a deal on these products which were refurbished. $199 plus free shipping was too good to pass up. This summer, I was able to make a trade to a friend for a third LP2465, which was a refurb from Newegg as well. These panels have a lot of hours on them, but the refurbishment typically involved replacing the lighting and updating the firmware. Of the three LP2465 monitors I have, only one has a small “bruise” slightly off of the center of the monitor. It is somewhat annoying, but as I have it as a peripheral monitor, it is not an issue for me. Otherwise, the three panels are very good in terms of overall quality.
I have no issues with the response time, and in twitch games I more than hold my own. I personally get more satisfaction with the better color, viewing angles, contrast, and deep blacks that S-PVA panels provide. I found these refurb products to give the best overall value for the quality I was looking for. I prefer the 1920 x 1200 resolution over 1080P. But if a person does not care about 1080P, there are a couple of very interesting budget non-TN LCDs out there.
The Asus ML239H is a 23" E-IPS based panel with LED lighting. The cheap price plus relatively thin bezel makes this a compelling choice for Eyefinity.
A-MVA and E-IPS panels are the budget version of PVA/MVA and IPS technologies respectively. It just so happens that Asus provides two models based on each of these types. I first noticed these around the beginning of the year, and have been intrigued by them and how they stack up against TN panels in their price range. The first is the Asus ML249H which features the A-MVA panel. This panel fluctuates in price anywhere from $219 to $234, depending on specials. The advantages of this panel include better contrast, color, and viewing angle as compared to TN panels. It is still going to be a slower response time than TN, but not as bad as some older MVA/PVA/IPS panels. This panel also includes LED lighting, so the contrast ratio is amazingly high. This is based on the new A-MVA panel designs of the past few years.
The second monitor from Asus is the ML239H. This number seems to sit around the $199 to $209 level, and is a full 1920 x 1080 panel. It appears to be an E-IPS panel, which is a more cost optimized IPS design. It still shares the same wide viewing angle and color representation as the most expensive versions, but as with most IPS panels there is quite a bit of backlight bleedthrough. This makes darks not nearly as dark as on TN, PVA, or MVA panels.
Opinions will again vary, but I feel that all of these panels work well for gaming, productivity, and video applications. The refurb HPs offer the larger 1920 x 1200 resolution, while the other two Asus parts feature the now more common 1080P. Anyway, I would pick all of these over a TN panel for myself. These are nice alternatives to the traditional S-PVA and S-IPS panels in the 23” to 24” range, which have prices typically above $499. Let us not mention the 30” panels which feature 2560 x 1600 resolutions, and go for well over $1100 in most instances.
Setting it all Up
Physically setting up the monitors and video cards is the simple part. Place the three monitors on the desk, either in a straight line, or with the surrounding monitors rotated towards the sitting position at a 30 degree angle from the center LCD. The PC case for the video cards should be relatively uncluttered with enough airflow to keep the cards cooled adequately.
Do not make the same mistake that I made though. Before putting in the new card, be sure to uninstall the AMD Catalyst drivers first. While I was using the latest Catalyst drivers at the time, I had thought to put in the new card, load up DOS from a USB memory stick, and then re-flash the BIOS to match the original card (unlocking the extra shaders). Unfortunately, I missed hitting the boot device setting, and went back into Windows 7. It found the second card, loaded drivers for it, etc. But because it had not been flashed yet, I was leery of leaving it be with the current drivers. So I attempted to uninstall. Two hours later I finally just had to hard reboot the system because the Catalyst drivers were not cooperating with the system in its new configuration. After cleaning everything out, and then flashing the card, I was up and running. It should not have been this hard, so do the right thing and uninstall any current AMD driver before adding a second card.
The Asus ML249H is a 24" A-MVA panel that also features LED backlighting and again a relatively thin bezel.
Cabling is of great import as well. The cards mentioned above have two DVI (one dual link, the other single link), two mini-DisplayPort connections, and a mini-HDMI port to round things out. As mentioned above, I had purchased the Sapphire active Mini-DP to DVI adapter. These seem to be in the general price range of other models, and the reviews so far have shown them to be pretty good as compared to some horror stories listed from other manufacturers. This could just be bad luck, as it looks like these adapters are made by one or two suppliers, and then rebranded at will. Because of the HP LP2465 monitors I had chosen, I had to go with DVI cables to each. Native DisplayPort monitors are still few and far between, and they typically have a higher price than other comparable panels.
If I had used 30” monitors with 2560×1600 resolutions, then I would have been forced to use the single dual-link DVI port, as well as the two DisplayPort plus the $100 active DP to dual-link DVI adapters. It is either this or the 30” monitors support DisplayPort natively, then the user only needs to purchase two mini-DP to DP cables. This does add to the expense of the endeavor, but we must figure that most people who can afford 3 x $1100 panels can spare a few extra hundred for the correct adapters and cables.
Perhaps the most frustrating part of this endeavor is to calibrate the monitors so they generally match each other. Resetting the monitors to factory defaults does not in fact make them identical in my particular case. Due to potentially different years of manufacture, different firmware versions, and then the very fact that they are a refurb product with some potential issues, calibration turned out to be a chore. Add into this issue the final refurb monitor I bought came on special with a PANTONE Huey Pro. This is supposed to make calibration very easy, but unfortunately the current software does not fully support Eyefinity. While the Huey Pro does support multiple monitors, it is only supported in the native Windows setting, and not Eyefinity. So when it attempts to calibrate in Eyefinity, the calibration patterns are only displayed on the center screen. So when calibrating the other monitors, this is obviously a problem. I was able to eyeball them to be pretty close, and then I use the Huey Pro to get the center monitor up to spec. This is not much of an issue, but if one were to work on photography while using Eyefinity, the results could be slightly off.
The other issue I ran into is with the Eyefinity software. After numbering/labeling the monitors and their physical placement, the Catalyst drivers could not correctly figure out which monitor was which when calibrating through the driver profiles. When I would choose the far left monitor, the color calibration would activate on the far right. When choosing the far right, then the center would be calibrated. This is just sorta sloppy by AMD. It did not affect any of the other applications I worked with, just the initial color and brightness calibration.
Interesting write-up Josh 🙂
Interesting write-up Josh 🙂
You say that now Tim, but
You say that now Tim, but wait until I steal your girlfriend and your laptop.
First of all your case needs
First of all your case needs a good dust
Secondly, I myself tried Eyefinity a couple of months back… Epic Fail… I already had a couple of cheap 19″ 1080p Hyundai LCD monitors so I picked up another. My reason for choosing these monitors was a, my budget and b, they have the thinnest frame available which is key for Eyefinity. I do not believe you mention this is your monitor section. Having a decent IPS panel with a thick frame would be much less desirable when gaming, even if color was more realistic.
I used an i920@3.6ghz on an X58 motherboard with 2 x 2gb 6950’s flashed to 6970’s…. So a fairly powerful machine. I don’t doubt that for productivity this kind of setup is great but if you are looking for just multi-monitor support for productivity you certainly do not need this kind of setup a single 5770 will work. This kind of setup is for gaming and very few games natively support this type of stretched image. There are tweaks and http://www.widescreengaming.com have some custom ini files that can help but I always felt that the images were too stretched in the side panels and the landscape mode was awkward. Cut scenes created issues as these would often be in a different resolution and the side screens would blank out during cutscenes and then take time to come back when the game started again….
Not enough games support NV Surround or Eyefinity to be honest, also there were issues with the drivers and power states when using more than one monitor, something that created a lot more heat and higher temps than when using one screen…
Perhaps I will try again in a few months, this time with a different screen but in portrait mode and not landscape, also I prefer Nvidia’s solution at the moment as it appears to be a little better supported in games, also you do not have to buy an Active DV to DVI dongle (admittedly you need sli, but to power 3 screens two vga cards are mandatory really). Although the 6950’s were powerful solution I personally do not think that Eyefinity or NV Surround are ready for prime time, not until more games natively support the odd resolutions. I don’t think this will be anytime soon either, PC gaming is still being held back by the very nature of the consoles using DX9 VGA solutions… Even though DX10/11 hardware has been available for a couple of years few if any true Dx10/11 games have been released, so why support Eyefinity or NV Surround?
IMHO of course, still nice article.
Why yes, my case does need a
Why yes, my case does need a good cleaning. I think that will be a project for this weekend.
Oddly enough, the bezels on these monitors do not annoy me all that much. They did take a little bit to get used to, but once I used bezel correction most of my issues went away. About the only thing that is annoying is sometimes using Firefox and going to my Favorites drop-down… depending on how expanded the browser is,it can be bothersome to try to get to some of the subfolders due to them opening up to the right, which usually makes it unreadable due to it being stuck behind the bezels of the adjoining monitors.
I haven’t had any issues with power states. Everything just sorta works like I would expect it to. It also doesn’t really bother me when I get into a game where I use a single monitor and the two others go to sleep. Sure, it takes a few seconds for them to wake up once I exit the game, but it hasn’t caused me to lose any hair or sleep over it.
I guess one area that I really didn’t cover is that a person’s personality and pet peeves will obviously have a huge impact on the enjoyability of Eyefinity. I realize it isn’t perfect, but there are some instances where I derive a lot of enjoyment from it. Mileage will obviously vary from person to person, and if a user is expecting a seamless and trouble-free experience, then they will be sorely disappointed. There is a lot of manual tweaking that needs to occur, so for those that really enjoy a challenge, the multi-monitor Eyefinity or NVIDIA Surround will be a nice playground for them. For those just expecting it to work, they will likely be frustrated at the more troublesome applications.
Agreed with you 100%, please
Agreed with you 100%, please don’t think my comments were meant as critism of your article, just my own experience…
I enjoyed your article actually.. I’m fond of PC Perspective. Perhaps if you get the time and ability you can do a comparison of NV Surround (2d)like me?
The 6950/6970 solution is easily the most powerful VGA solution in the price bracket, HOWEVER, AMD do not handle transparent anti-aliasing well currently and this is why I choose Nvidia. Having said this Transparent Anti Aliasing only works with Nvidia solution of Supersampling is used (not multisampling)…
Come on guys get your damn drivers working properly!!!
Heh, I didn’t take your post
Heh, I didn’t take your post as unneeded or unnecessary criticism. You have some good points in your comments, and they are certainly welcome here.
I will eventually do a NV surround article, but need to put together a few things before I do such a thing.
Nice insight.
I enjoy what
Nice insight.
I enjoy what eyefinity is, but the reason I still have a 4850 and haven’t upgraded is because I don’t believe the power is there yet. I would be interested in the console effects of this technology, something like Wii U can really benefit from it, but on PC it is difficult enough to run Metro 2033 at a butter smooth 60-90 FPS and I would always rather have a higher FPS then spend triple the money and get a little more peripheral view.
I have been playing games for nearly 20 years. Always used one screen, and I don’t see the need for upgrading (much like 3d) until it is perfect. I won’t go out of my way to have it, but I wouldn’t mind it one bit.
I’m planning on picking up 3
I’m planning on picking up 3 Dell u2711 LCD each with a resolution of 2560×1440 as well as building a sandy-bridge system with 16GB of ram and a 2600K OC to 4.5-5Ghz, what video card should I get to play portal 2 in eyefinity or nvidia surround. I don’t game a lot, mostly will be used for productivity but I would like a decent experience with multi-monitor gaming with Portal 2 at those resolutions either nvidia or amd.
Thanks.
If you are going to go NVIDIA
If you are going to go NVIDIA surround, you definitely need two video cards. The GTX 560 Ti is a nice choice for the money, and are about as fast as the AMD HD 6950. The only issue that might be a stickler for you is the 1 GB frame buffer that most of those cards have. There are a few examples out there that have 2 GB onboard, and considering the resolutions you are likely going to game in, it would be a good idea to get as much memory as possible. Also consider that 2560 x 1440 will really push even a single card in most applications, and you are going with 3 of them. So I would recommend the fastest cards possible (GTX 580 or the AMD HD 6970) and pair those cards up.
Depends on many factors.
Depends on many factors. Currently I have 2 x 560Ti’s in my gaming PC. However I also owned 2 x 6950 (2gb) CF cards.
I can tell you that the extra frame buffer (2gb) makes a real difference in Eyefinity, especially if you want to use FSAA…..
You will find it hard to beat the 6950 CF solution. However for me FSAA is important. I’d rather play games on one single high resolution screen rather than multiple screens. AMD do not handle transparent FSAA well, the Nvidia solution is better for Transparent FSAA….
You can buy 2gb versions of the 560 or 560Ti cards so this would be my first choice. IMO of course…. A pair of 6950/6970’s will be slightly faster but IQ will not be as impressive. Also you need to factor in cost of DV to DVI dongle ($30) which you dont with Nvidia solution…
And no I am no Nvidiot fanboy, just someone who loves technology…..
I like the Samuel Adams cup
I like the Samuel Adams cup front & center, Josh. That’s how I game too.
^ This.
^ This.
Professionalism. I has it.
Professionalism. I has it.
I’ve been running a 3 monitor
I’ve been running a 3 monitor 24″ Eyefinity setup myself (for a whopping 5760 x 1080 resolution) off a Sapphire 2 GB 6950 for a while now and I have to say I’m ‘meh’ on the whole deal.
While it’s great to have the real estate and it is nice to have a lot of big widows up and available without having to tab through things. But I actually find that I can’t take in the full 3 monitors at once, so I need to continually turn your head to see the right/left monitors. Even with the monitors angled in, they measure 59″ from bottom left to bottom right. What that might sound cool, it’s actually a pain to have to turn and look to the right to see what time it is and then turn and look to the left for my windows button or find an icon for an app you want to open. I know, it sounds cheesy, but after a while it gets annoying.
Gaming is occasionally great, but often so-so. Like you said, sim types games, flight sims and racing, do look great, because they seem to actually use the full resolution on the side screens. But often games that claim to support eyefinity just stretch the side graphics and it really looks awful. At first I thought Left 4 Dead/L4D2 looked awesome acros the three monitors and then I noticed how stretched out the side images are. Also, many compatible games don’t put your UI in the center screen. I die more often than I’d like in most shooters because my health bar is all the way to the bottom right and I don’t even notice it about empty. I actually find myself sadly playing more games in windowed mode now than I used to, just so I don’t have to deal a lot of these problems.
That being said, if you do have an eyefinity setup a couple of games that seem to have done the Eyefinity thing right that I can think of off the top of my head include Supreme Commander II, Wings of Prey & DiRT 3.
If I had it to do over again, I think I’d likely go with 3 smaller (20-22″) LCD’s or a large center monitor and then two side monitors that have the same horizontal resolution as the vertical resolution on the center monitor. Then they could be turned landscape mode and be used that way.
Josh, dust it or get an NZXT
Josh, dust it or get an NZXT Phantom or I’ll never send you another BIOS again :p
I dusted it out yesterday and
I dusted it out yesterday and swapped in a 1200 watt power supply that I have had for ages for this particular machine…
Now if I can get rid of a new BSOD everytime I turn on the machine. How it goes is… I turn it on, about 20 seconds after hitting Win7 desktop, the three screens go crazy, and then it blue screens.
How I have to fix it is start in safe mode, set both adapters to Standard VGA, reboot in normal mode, uninstall the Catalyst drivers, reboot, re-install drivers (I have tried 11.5, 11.6, 11.6a, and 11.6b so far), reboot and it works like it is supposed to. When I shut it down… I have to go through the same thing again to get it started.
Any suggestions? I did do driver sweeper this morning, which I hadn’t done before. But I will wait for tomorrow to restart it again and see if it jacks up.
I am using a quadfire setup
I am using a quadfire setup (4 x 5870’s w/ GA-990-FXA-UD7) with a 3 x 1 eyefinity landscape w/3-25″ monitors and found that AMD GPU’s use ‘supertiling’ rendering during Eyefinity usage. Each card renders alternating 32 x 32 pixels squares. The memory of all cards is pooled and each GPU has access to (in this case) the 4 GB of buffer. At 5760 x 1080 the performance is superb.
http://imageshack.us/f/62/metro2033veryhigh23.jpg/ very high settings
http://imageshack.us/f/816/crysiswarhead5760.jpg/ enthusiast settings
at any rate , you do not have to spend $1500-$2000 on GPU’s to enjoy Eyefinity as has been implied by so many sites around.
Here is a list of officially supported eyefinity games.
http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-software.aspx
Nice… my Eyefinity system
Nice… my Eyefinity system just suddenly started crashing. After some trial and error, it seems that the Catalyst 11.6 drivers can exhibit BSODs when one of the DisplayPorts or HDMI connection is used. Updating to the 11.6b hotfix seems to have fixed this problem.
It is just plain odd that this problem showed up after it has been running for as long as it has.
Hey Josh I’m using the 11.6b
Hey Josh I’m using the 11.6b drivers also. Did you notice that CCC identifies them as 11.7?
Nice write-up, I have been
Nice write-up, I have been using Eyefinity for over a year now and love it. I would tell people to think twice about those ASUS monitors with the large bezel area at the bottom, though. Once I tried using Eyefinity in portrait mode, it was quite addicting and I ended up selling my ASUS TN panels to buy some Dell IPS’s that have the rotatable stands for portrait mode. Besides game looking really good in portrait mode, it also solves the problems of some games either not working or not working well at 48:9 aspect ratio which is how I ended up trying it in the first place since Borderlands is a pain the neck to run super widescreen, but works fine on a huge desktop.
A little dust never hurt
A little dust never hurt anyone.
but dust can hurt *anything*
but dust can hurt *anything*
There was a AMD Eyefinity
There was a AMD Eyefinity setup at Computex Taiwan not long ago.
http://www.expreview.com/img/news/2011/05/31/AMD-1.jpg
Can anyone identify the model of those monitors used? I am very interested in building a future Eyefinity setup like one one in picture.
They look like 27″ monitors with ultra thin bezels.
Samsung kit.
Samsung kit.
Link:http://www.samsung.com/u
Link:http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/monitors/LS23MUQHB/ZA
I went eyefinity about 5
I went eyefinity about 5 months ago and love it for Bad Company 2. I am rockin 1x 6950 reference unlocked to 6970 and was also able to overvolt it and OC it to really high levels successfully just for running 3dmark tests.
I am using 3x Asus 24″ LED monitors i picked up for about $100 each and i couldnt be happier.
A lot of you guys are claiming you NEED 2x 6950..You don’t. I was planning on getting another eventually but so far i can play bad company 2 at max resolution and mostly max settings with no lag.
For myself I need two cards,
For myself I need two cards, mainly because I do like the extra prettiness that affords in most games. I did run for a while on one card, but I was much happier with performance and quality settings after I installed the 2nd.
I have a question for any
I have a question for any eyefinity experts out there. I have 3 monitors and 1 TV i connect to my Computer. I have a 6950 w/ 2x mini dp, 1x hdmi, 2x dvi. I have 2x active display port adapters already available. Can i do 2x active DP + 1 DVI for 3x eyefinity monitors and then HDMI to the TV and run the eyefinity group as “1 monitor” and the TV as another? It’s just nice so i can use the TV for netflix without having to change everything everytime.
I don’t think it will work
I don’t think it will work that way. But I am not entirely sure. When creating an Eyefinity group, you might be able to remove the TV from the group, but I have no clue offhand.
Also another interesting
Also another interesting subject is getting the monitors to look good. The best thing i have seen is the XFX stand, which is amazing but expensive – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824994053&Tpk=xfx%20stand.
I am thinking of taking 2 of these 2x monitor stand and arranging them to work with 3 monitors so that the middle monitor has 1 connected and 1 attachment empty behind the monitor: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB103-PB&cpc=SCH.
I reckon the best use of a
I reckon the best use of a triple monitor setup is racing. Even in the air you could use a bit more vertical, but in racing, all you need is the horizontal wide-viewing angles. Portrait mode may work, but then the bezels are too close to the center, IMHO.
I’ve tried both ATI/nV solutions, and ATI was a bit problematic for me (ongoing problems through multiple driver versions), while nV has a goofy setup. But nV still seems to work better & more reliable.
It’s a shame how many games suffer from consolitis, though, and setting the FoV is often impossible – hell, sometimes even just setting the wide-screen resolution is impossible 🙁
And of course the highly distorted side-screens can be a turnoff, when the game isn’t about perspective just more visible stuff, e.g. RTS. Everyone bends their side monitors inwards, you should not have that sort of distortion on the side screen, it’s not one big flat surface. Even if it was the distortion is way overdone and unrealistic, often.
P.S. install some dust filters, mate, you’re asking for trouble there. Even a thin cloth over the air intakes helps heaps. Better yet, get a positive pressure case with filtered air intakes. Your computer will love you for it.
Your desk is messy! 😀
Your desk is messy! 😀
It is supposed to build
It is supposed to build character, or so I hear.
Isn’t the CPU cooler supposed
Isn’t the CPU cooler supposed to be rotated 90 degrees? I assume it’s mounted as it is for clearance, but seems like the airflow would be 100x better if it were rotated.
The design of the heatsink
The design of the heatsink does not allow it to be rotated by 90 degrees (iirc). Either way though, it should be fine in terms of airflow in that case.