Frame Rating Info
Testing Configuration
Here is the pricing breakdown of our entire system build.
AMD Kaveri Dual Graphics Test Setup | |
---|---|
Processor | AMD A8-7600 Kaveri APU - $139 |
Heatsink | Noctua NH-L9A - $44 |
Motherboard | Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ - $145 |
Memory | AMD Memory 8GB DDR3-2400 - $121 |
Graphics Card | MSI R7 250 OC Edition 2GB DDR3 - $94 |
Storage | Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - $169 |
Total Price | $712 |
The A8-7600 isn't really recognized by GPU-Z quite yet...
MSI Radeon R7 250 OC Edition
What you should be watching for
- A8-7600 vs R7 250 - How does the integrated graphics performance of the A8-7600 APU compare to the discrete performance of the R7 250?
- R7 250 vs A8-7600 + R7 250 - How much better is performance when we enable Dual Graphics with both the APU and discrete GPU at work?
- Frame Pacing enabled vs Frame Pacing disabled - How much has AMD really improved the frame pacing support with the Catalyst 13.35 beta driver?
Frame Rating: Our Testing Process
If you aren't familiar with it, you should probably do a little research into our testing methodology as it is quite different than others you may see online. Rather than using FRAPS to measure frame rates or frame times, we are using an secondary PC to capture the output from the tested graphics card directly and then use post processing on the resulting video to determine frame rates, frame times, frame variance and much more.
This amount of data can be pretty confusing if you attempting to read it without proper background, but I strongly believe that the results we present paint a much more thorough picture of performance than other options. So please, read up on the full discussion about our Frame Rating methods before moving forward!!
While there are literally dozens of file created for each “run” of benchmarks, there are several resulting graphs that FCAT produces, as well as several more that we are generating with additional code of our own.
If you don't need the example graphs and explanations below, you can jump straight to the benchmark results now!!
The PCPER FRAPS File
While the graphs above are produced by the default version of the scripts from NVIDIA, I have modified and added to them in a few ways to produce additional data for our readers. The first file shows a sub-set of the data from the RUN file above, the average frame rate over time as defined by FRAPS, though we are combining all of the GPUs we are comparing into a single graph. This will basically emulate the data we have been showing you for the past several years.
The PCPER Observed FPS File
This graph takes a different subset of data points and plots them similarly to the FRAPS file above, but this time we are look at the “observed” average frame rates, shown previously as the blue bars in the RUN file above. This takes out the dropped and runts frames, giving you the performance metrics that actually matter – how many frames are being shown to the gamer to improve the animation sequences.
As you’ll see in our full results on the coming pages, seeing a big difference between the FRAPS FPS graphic and the Observed FPS will indicate cases where it is likely the gamer is not getting the full benefit of the hardware investment in their PC.
The PLOT File
The primary file that is generated from the extracted data is a plot of calculated frame times including runts. The numbers here represent the amount of time that frames appear on the screen for the user, a “thinner” line across the time span represents frame times that are consistent and thus should produce the smoothest animation to the gamer. A “wider” line or one with a lot of peaks and valleys indicates a lot more variance and is likely caused by a lot of runts being displayed.
The RUN File
While the two graphs above show combined results for a set of cards being compared, the RUN file will show you the results from a single card on that particular result. It is in this graph that you can see interesting data about runts, drops, average frame rate and the actual frame rate of your gaming experience.
For tests that show no runts or drops, the data is pretty clean. This is the standard frame rate per second over a span of time graph that has become the standard for performance evaluation on graphics cards.
A test that does have runts and drops will look much different. The black bar labeled FRAPS indicates the average frame rate over time that traditional testing would show if you counted the drops and runts in the equation – as FRAPS FPS measurement does. Any area in red is a dropped frame – the wider the amount of red you see, the more colored bars from our overlay were missing in the captured video file, indicating the gamer never saw those frames in any form.
The wide yellow area is the representation of runts, the thin bands of color in our captured video, that we have determined do not add to the animation of the image on the screen. The larger the area of yellow the more often those runts are appearing.
Finally, the blue line is the measured FPS over each second after removing the runts and drops. We are going to be calling this metric the “observed frame rate” as it measures the actual speed of the animation that the gamer experiences.
The PERcentile File
Scott introduced the idea of frame time percentiles months ago but now that we have some different data using direct capture as opposed to FRAPS, the results might be even more telling. In this case, FCAT is showing percentiles not by frame time but instead by instantaneous FPS. This will tell you the minimum frame rate that will appear on the screen at any given percent of time during our benchmark run. The 50th percentile should be very close to the average total frame rate of the benchmark but as we creep closer to the 100% we see how the frame rate will be affected.
The closer this line is to being perfectly flat the better as that would mean we are running at a constant frame rate the entire time. A steep decline on the right hand side tells us that frame times are varying more and more frequently and might indicate potential stutter in the animation.
The PCPER Frame Time Variance File
Of all the data we are presenting, this is probably the one that needs the most discussion. In an attempt to create a new metric for gaming and graphics performance, I wanted to try to find a way to define stutter based on the data sets we had collected. As I mentioned earlier, we can define a single stutter as a variance level between t_game and t_display. This variance can be introduced in t_game, t_display, or on both levels. Since we can currently only reliably test the t_display rate, how can we create a definition of stutter that makes sense and that can be applied across multiple games and platforms?
We define a single frame variance as the difference between the current frame time and the previous frame time – how consistent the two frames presented to the gamer. However, as I found in my testing plotting the value of this frame variance is nearly a perfect match to the data presented by the minimum FPS (PER) file created by FCAT. To be more specific, stutter is only perceived when there is a break from the previous animation frame rates.
Our current running theory for a stutter evaluation is this: find the current frame time variance by comparing the current frame time to the running average of the frame times of the previous 20 frames. Then, by sorting these frame times and plotting them in a percentile form we can get an interesting look at potential stutter. Comparing the frame times to a running average rather than just to the previous frame should prevent potential problems from legitimate performance peaks or valleys found when moving from a highly compute intensive scene to a lower one.
While we are still trying to figure out if this is the best way to visualize stutter in a game, we have seen enough evidence in our game play testing and by comparing the above graphic to other data generated through our Frame rating system to be reasonably confident in our assertions. So much in fact that I am going to going this data the PCPER ISU, which beer fans will appreciate the acronym of International Stutter Units.
To compare these results you want to see a line that is as close the 0ms mark as possible indicating very little frame rate variance when compared to a running average of previous frames. There will be some inevitable incline as we reach the 90+ percentile but that is expected with any game play sequence that varies from scene to scene. What we do not want to see is a sharper line up that would indicate higher frame variance (ISU) and could be an indication that the game sees microstuttering and hitching problems.
Hey Ryan,
Great write up.
Hey Ryan,
Great write up. Any chance of us getting an updated review with an a10 chip along with a comparison between gddr3 and gddr5?
Ryan, I second Marc’s
Ryan, I second Marc’s question. I just picked up an A10-7850k Black Edition and am curious to see what I can get away with using to maximize perfomance of this APU without overpaying for potential unused features (such as DDR5 vs DDR3).
Dear Author
There is
Dear Author
There is something wrong with your Math.
Battlefield 3 CF 45fps is 50% more to 30fps (solo), same goes to other titles
The gains are up to 50% not by 30% like you wrote.
Dear Author
There is
Dear Author
There is something wrong with your Math.
Battlefield 3 CF 45fps is 50% more to 30fps (solo), same goes to other titles
The gains are up to 50% not by 30% like you wrote.
Kaveri supports XDMA. Has
Kaveri supports XDMA. Has anybody tried to CF a Kaveri cpu with a R7 260? Ryan, do you have any plans to try this?
HEllo,
I have problems to
HEllo,
I have problems to setup Dual Graphics, I have the last beta drivers installed CCC 14.1
Motherboard: Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+
APU: AMD A10-7700K
GPU: Shappire R7 250
How I can set up this, os is also something with BIOS?
Thanks in advanve.
its really a shame that
its really a shame that people are two-faced when it comes to computer hardware. while a company is attempting to innovate the market, all the jackals say is ‘intel is faster and uses less power’ yet the ivy and haswell bridges are pretty much the same thing. but what do i know? its not like i watched 64-bit go through the useless stage when it first released.
it is funny to me how people are comparing a cost effective solution to a double cost build that runs better. get a life quiers, you know who you are.
A10-7850K + MSI R7 250 2GB
A10-7850K + MSI R7 250 2GB DDR3 + 8GB 1066 PC3-10700 VENGEANCE + 240GB SSD Hyper-X + ASUS A58M-A MB + 550W Antec PSU
AMD Catalyst Beta 14.7 and 14.4 stable works good with dual graphics.
Make sure to enable dual monitor support and change PCI to primary video card in BIOS to enable Crossfire / Dual Graphics and to OC the Video card to 1200mhz.
BF3 on High is good. Medium is flawless. Auto runs great too.
Thanks for letting us know
Thanks for letting us know the A8-7600 will run dual-graphics with an R7-240.
If it had had a little more
If it had had a little more of an edge that would have been fine
too, but I’m OK with their making things work out in a feel-good, romantic
comedy sort of way. In society, however, there
is a growing acceptance of all kinds of lifestyles. I want to marry my girlfriend, just like my brother is going to marry his girlfriend.
With the proliferation of AMD
With the proliferation of AMD R7 250 subsets (e,x etc), is the a-fore mentioned MSI card (MSI R7 250 2gd3 OC etc) the best choice I can make for my itx build*? Would any of the more resent variants be a better choice?
* with the exception of a Fractal Node 304 case, a different apu cooler and Adata DDR3 2400 memory everything else is the same.
thanks in advance
Can The a8 7600k run dual
Can The a8 7600k run dual graphics with asus r7 250 1gb gddr5 oland core 384streaming processors memory 4600 core 1050??
bump
bump
I have the same problem…
I have the same problem…
What is that cpu cooler. It
What is that cpu cooler. It seems nice. Specially to cool down the motherboard chips.
Can you combine Dual Graphics
Can you combine Dual Graphics and CrossFire? And if so is it as simple as plugging in the cards and putting on a bridge?
please help me i cant
please help me i cant crossfire on my device
i have amd a8 7600 and GPU sapphire r7 250 128bit 2gb ram ddr5
i cannot crossfire my amd
i cannot crossfire my amd a8-7600 and r7 250 1GB DDR5 can u help me please
Hi Bittu,did you resolve this
Hi Bittu,did you resolve this issue? if so, what did you do and please share your display driver and OS details that seem to work? I have an A8 7600 and Gigabyte R7 250 ddr3 and trying to do dual graphics, but nothing seems to work.Please feel free to email the info to me at deepkumar.velaga@gmail.com
This is a really good
This is a really good alternative to spending a lot of money unnecessarily to run a couple “higher end” cards(say a pair of GTX 760’s). I’m a pretty casual gamer, but I really enjoy building, tinkering, overclocking, and maxing the performance in my machines. That being said it’s really wasteful for me to spend a ton of money on an expensive rig with my usage. I spent around $500 probably 4-6 years ago and even with my hefty OC running dual at 4.5MHz my A6 5400K and GTX 550ti(yes, I know it’s weak in comparison to most, but pretty good for the $) are really lagging behind on some newer games i was excited about playing. Picking up a A8 7650K and pairing it with 2GB R7 250 would be a significant upgrade for me with a price tag under $200. I’m really glad to see the benchmark and performance numbers are there on this one. That’s not always the case with SLI and Crossfire.
Please help me I can’t find
Please help me I can’t find or make my a10 7850k dual graphic or crossfire with my sapphire r7 240 gddr5. I did all the instruction in youtube and google and i got latest drivers and catalyst. But dual graphic do not appear in my ccc. Please help me
hey i know this post is real
hey i know this post is real old but i dont thing you can crossfire ddr3 apu with ddr5 gpu….
i had the same problem trying to CF mygodavari apu (DDR3) and a sappire radeon hd 7770 DDR5…. CF wouldnt show
Did you get any progress with
Did you get any progress with your dual graphics setup? If so please share how you resolved it.
Im accually really hoping
Im accually really hoping someone lets me know what crossfires with perfect with the godavari because im about to sell my HD7770 Sappire radeon flex gddr5 and get a gpu that will crossfire with my godavari….. any tips please let me know asap
same here I have a8 7600 and
same here I have a8 7600 and r7 250 2gb gddr5. I activated dual graphics but I cannot see the tab “gaming” in the radeon settings nor the crossfire tab.