Mainstream: A10-7850K Platform
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Things are different again now that we have moved from the high end Sandy Bridge-E system to the CPU-bound APU configuration. We still don't have any differences between the FRAPS-style performance recording and the integrated FCAT based testing, which is a good first step. The single GPU results are consistent and make a lot of sense – the Mantle version of BF4 runs 9% faster than DirectX at 1080p – a difference worth shifting APIs for I think if you already have a GCN card in your system.
Multi-GPU results are more confusing. The orange line that represents Mantle CrossFire results starts out "flat" like we saw on the previous page but then appears to open up and scales upward peaking around 34% faster than the single card option. At the same time, the D3D11 CrossFire result actually stays quite a bit lower, giving Mantle the advantage. If you look at our Frame Times graph you'll see that under DirectX, we have quite a bit of frame time variance that does not exist under Mantle.
These results were consistent and repeatable and make multi-GPU configurations at 1920×1080, even with the A10-7850K, less than desirable.
Things actually get even more interesting at 2560×1440. Mantle scales by as much as 85% going from a single 290X to a pair of them in CrossFire while DirectX only sees a 42% advantage. And again, the consistency of the frame times in the multi-GPU Mantle result is much better than what we are seeing with D3D1 – by a lot.
I wouldn’t say that at
I wouldn’t say that at 2560X1440 Mantle results (3960X) “scale up within range of the DirectX 11 CrossFire scaling”. It is more like they stay flat and all other results just go down. The fps are almost identical with the results at 1080p.
And I really don’t see why the conclusion that the results under Mantle are “less than desirable”. The whole thing about frame rating, the reason, I guess, why all this fuss was ever started, was because smoothness is more desirable than frames per second. Has something change here suddenly? I believe not, but I see uncertainty. Maybe now that things are getting better we are starting to ask for more?
Other than that thanks again for all these articles(the fuss lol) that benefit all of us.
Smoothness is definitely the
Smoothness is definitely the key, but you CAN have smooth frame rates and increased frame rates at the same time. We've seen it done correctly in DX11 for quite some time.
Well, this all explains that
Well, this all explains that while I get much higher FPS in Thief while using mantle, it just doesn’t ‘feel’ very smooth.
Thanks for the article.
Was
Thanks for the article.
Was this testing done after the March 31, 2014 patch? I only ask because it lists specific Mantle frame pacing updates.
Patch notes here:
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065227487387474
Yep, we ran all these tests
Yep, we ran all these tests yesterday!
The Multiplayer results look
The Multiplayer results look weird; if I’m reading this right, at 1080p, the Crossfired DX11 solution is the slowest. Looks slightly better at 1440p, but that’s likely only because the single cards are bottlenecked. This looks like a driver issue to me, as there’s no reason CFX should be doing that badly in DX11.
I meant AMD results; not
I meant AMD results; not MP.
Also worth noting AMD’s poor D3d performance in Thief, especially when compared to Mantle.
I don’t want to say AMD is intentionally reducing the performance of their D3D driver, but some of these results sure make it LOOK that way.
It does look that way,
It does look that way, indeed.
Yea I noticed that in theif
Yea I noticed that in theif as well, AMD blog that had graph’s that shows difference on their card from DX11 to mantle yes helped they cards but how a 290x only avg’s 55fps I think was what they said. My 780 (no not ti card)was hitting almost 70fps avg using same settings. If it ends up coming to Light AMD was dumbing down DX11 performance on games with mantle to make mantle look better, could be nasty PR nightmare. Likely since game is a mantle game they don’t want to focus on optimizing the game for dx when it competes with their own proprietary api and make results look less compelling.
other difference is I have a 4770k not 4670k, but results should be to much different.
http://community.amd.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-2668-2822/290X_4670K.png
Great catch.
Great catch.
It’s not true though, 290x
It’s not true though, 290x easily averages over 60 in DX.
Perhaps you’re quoting data from the older drivers, or kids with incredibly broken ‘enthusiast’ setups.
well it seems like a
well it seems like a pointless wast of resources, to spend time optimizing for dx, while they can focus on mantle, if it was me i would do the same.
Why fix SLI frame pacing when
Why fix SLI frame pacing when you can just launch G-Sync.
Nvidia never had SLI frame
Nvidia never had SLI frame pacing problems, Nvidia fixed that problem back at start with Hardware on the cards to do it. frame pacing was all AMD’s problem.
Of course they have frame
Of course they have frame pacing problems! Look at the SLI frametimes! A complete mess!
Mantle is an almost perfectly flat line, NVidia cannot achieve that with dx.
Why fix SLI frame pacing when
Why fix SLI frame pacing when you can just launch G-Sync.
Because G-Sync is not free of
Because G-Sync is not free of charge. It is expensive and only in few(are there more than one?) monitors.
Because Mantle will be
Because Mantle will be obsolete since DX12 does the same thing, runs on more platforms (Windows + Windows Phone + XB1), and runs on more cards (NVIDIA + AMD + Qualcomm). And then when NVIDIA’s cards are 20+ FPS faster, I’m sure AMD will be sorry they didn’t fix their D3D driver up.
Except, Mantle will run on
Except, Mantle will run on every console, the steam box and anything that can run a Linux distribution. As well as Android.
nVidia had frame pacing
nVidia had frame pacing sorted way back in 2008. AMD in 2014 have finally got it sorted for their user base. G-Sync is completely different to Mantle and can’t be compared.
Not only sorted out, but
Not only sorted out, but without any extra APIs. Shows who can develop drivers and who can’t and has to forced developers (often crappy themselves) to do job of driver vendor…
NVidia did not have frame
NVidia did not have frame pacing “sorted” in 2008. They have been aware of the issues and working to solve them with a slow, steady improvement, however it’s not completely perfect even today.
I watched a really long video with Tom Peterson at PCPER (90 minutes?) and frame pacing was discussed quite a bit, including SLI frame pacing.
In particular, Frame Rate Metering was discussed and he said they will continue to improve it every generation in both hardware and software.
(I also wonder if GTX750Ti cards don’t have SLI in part because new Frame Rate Metering might not be finalized for Maxwell cards.)
Why would the author
Why would the author benchmark on older 14.2 Mantle drivers? There is clearly something wrong here with crossfire scaling. I get a massive boost only 7970GHZ Crosfire and 3930K.
Actually, that was a typo. We
Actually, that was a typo. We used Catalyst 14.4 beta drivers we got in house on the 31st.
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification. 14.4 is not released yet. I thought you would make it clear if you were using a pre-release driver. Also those kind of things customarily require an NDA. Amazed AMD allowed you to post benchmarks.
Ryan, have you messed with
Ryan, have you messed with this setting “RenderDevice.FramePacingMethod” at all?
The default setting 2 is cutting my fps in half on my 7990 its crazy, what setting did you use for the benchmarks here?
“Smoothness is definitely the
“Smoothness is definitely the key, but you CAN have smooth frame rates and increased frame rates at the same time. We’ve seen it done correctly in DX11 for quite some time”
Cool…I`m still rockin` a AMD 5850/C2Q and it works fine.
It was one of the first DX11 cards got it to play Dirt 2 !
Still is fun to play.
Using 14.2 beta 1.3 with
Using 14.2 beta 1.3 with crossfire 290’s on bf4 and mantle is the smoothest gaming i’ve seen in years and this is the first time in the last 10 years or so that i’ve owned non nvidia gpu’s. Seems like a lot of the testing i read on different sites somehow never relates to my experiences and i’m having trouble understanding why this is. The dual gpu scaling is very impressive with upto 100% scaling and i can honestly say, i could not be more pleased with the 290’s.