COD: Advanced Warfare and Closing Thoughts
Our results from Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare offer interest in a different way. We used the opening level of the game for our testing and I found that just about any reasonable settings in the game would go above the 3.5 GB memory usage, even on the GTX 970. However, the GTX 980 continually used 300-400 MB more than the GTX 970, even on the same kinds of settings. Take a look:
We are running this game at 2560×1440, but keep in mind there is no such thing as "Very High" or "Ultra" settings in Advanced Warfare. Let's explain what we see. The "Very High" settings run set texture resolution, normal map resolution and specular map resolution to High, ambient occlusion if Off and post-process anti-aliasing is Off as well. Even with those settings, GTX 970 is pushing the 3.6GB level of graphics memory consumption, crossing the 3.5 GB barrier and toeing into the 500MB window. The problem is that the GTX 980 is using the full 3.97 GB of its memory for the same combination of settings.
At Ultra settings I was SURE we would get the GTX 970 into the 3.9 GB range, where we have everything set to its maximum, AA moved to MSAA 2x and even enabled Supersampling at 2x and 4x (both were tried). But the GTX 970 still only reported using 3.6GB of memory and the GTX 980 actually stretched just beyond the 4.0GB level.
What does this mean? I'm still not sure but it would seem that in this case the GeForce GTX 970 was having difficulty going beyond the 3.5GB limit. After talking with NVIDIA, technical PR said they weren't able to reproduce the behavior but our results were run 4-5 times in order to double check this was indeed the reported consumption we were seeing. The GTX 980 had no problems filling the 4GB of memory – the GTX 970 did.
Our two quality settings have a dramatic difference in performance outlook, with the "Very High" settings never dropping below 100 FPS and the "Ultra" settings hovering around the 20 FPS mark.
Looking at our graph of frame rate by percentile you'll see that performance deltas between the two settings and between the two cards remain similar. With an average of 155 FPS on the GTX 980 and 140 FPS on the GTX 970 on our "Very High" settings, we see 10-11% performance advantage for the NVIDIA flagship. Under "Ultra" the averages sit at 22 FPS and 19.5 FPS respectively, a 12% difference.
The frame time graph is an inverse of the FPS graphs above – the lower two lines in this graph represent the HIGH frame rate results of the "Very High" settings and the upper two lines represent the "Ultra" settings. And those top two results are the most important – you can see that indeed there are some additional spikes in the frame times of Advanced Warfare when running on the GTX 970 at these very intense image quality settings. Those spikes are nearly non-existent on the GTX 980, the card that is using 300-400MB more memory during our testing in that scenario.
That data is represented in our frame variance results as well – the GTX 970 at "Ultra" settings are pushing 5ms or higher variances for the last 10% of frames. The GTX 980 runs at less than half of that – 2.5ms or so.
Closing Thoughts
I spent nearly the entirety of two days testing the GeForce GTX 970 and trying to replicate some of the consumer complaints centered around the memory issue we discussed all week. I would say my results are more open ended than I expected. In both BF4 and in CoD: Advanced Warfare I was able to find performance settings that indicated the GTX 970 was more apt to stutter than the GTX 980. In both cases, the in-game settings were exceptionally high, going in the sub-25 FPS range and those just aren't realistic. A PC gamer isn't going to run at those frame rates on purpose and thus I can't quite convince myself to get upset about it.
Interestingly, Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty reacted very differently in my quest to utilize more memory with the GTX 970. BF4 had no issues scaling up memory usage on both cards, beyond the 3.5GB pool and into the secondary 0.5GB pool. Advanced Warfare…not so much. Despite all my attempts and changing settings and selecting different combination, using more than 3.6GB on the GTX 970 seemed impossible, despite the GTX 980 ramping up to 4.0GB without issue. It is possible, and seemingly likely, that there would be SOME combo of settings that would do it but based on the heuristics of Windows and the NVIDIA driver, that secondary pool of memory was being used only minimally. And though performance didn't seem to be adversely affected at the lower IQ settings, it did on the more intense ones.
GM204 won't look the same for us anymore…
I know that several readers have asked about SLI testing with the GTX 970 – that is a fair question and something I would like to do. The problem is that it introduces another factor of variables to the equation: we already know that SLI and CrossFire can introduce more stutter and variance in gaming at high resolutions. And determining which factor, the 3.5GB memory pool or multi-GPU complications, is causing a particular stutter or higher variance will be MUCH more difficult. Multi-GPU results already tend to be more variable from run to run, making that direction much tougher. Not impossible, just expect a much larger time investment to come to any kind of reasonably accurate conclusions.
And speaking of conclusions…what am I prepared to declare after our testing? First, it appears that the division of memory on the GeForce GTX 970 is definitely causing some games to act differently than they do with the 4GB of the GeForce GTX 980. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare is evidence enough of that and I have no doubt that some other games exhibit the same behavior. Secondly, though I am not confident enough in my results that show higher variance with the GTX 970 than with the GTX 980 at extremely high image quality settings to state that the memory division is the cause, I think the results in both BF4 and COD leave the door open for it as a probable cause. Essentially, while I don't believe the performance results and experiences I saw are proof that this is occurring, it does mean that I cannot disprove it either.
Benchmark result courtesy HardwareCanucks
That may not be the answer anyone wants – consumers, gamers, NVIDIA, etc. – but it actually melds with where I thought this whole process would fall. Others in the media that I know and trust, including HardwareCanucks and Guru3D, have shown similar benchmarks and come to similar conclusions. Is it possible that the 3.5GB/0.5GB memory pools are causing issues with games today at very specific settings and resolutions? Yes. Is it possible that it might do so for more games in the future? Yes. Do I think it is likely that most gamers will come across those cases? I honestly do not.
If you are an owner of a GTX 970, I totally understand the feelings of betrayal, but realistically I don't see many people with access to a wide array of different GPU hardware changing their opinion on the product itself. NVIDIA definitely screwed up with the release of the GeForce GTX 970 – good communication is important for any relationship, including producer to consumer. However, they just might have built a product that can withstand a PR disaster like this.
I repeat again, videocard
I repeat again, videocard works like any other, but have 3.5 gb only available and last 0.5 gb is actually non local video memory (which is system ram) and there is no slow video memory like NVidia said. It’s lie and it can be easy prooved (i prooved by writing own tests). Just allocate blocks in vram and dump ram, search in dump the code of those “vram” blocks and you will see that last 0.5 gb is stored in ram. Is that so hard? I feel myself genious seeing noone notice obvious things.
Is this Boris, the one, the
Is this Boris, the one, the only?
One more:
Boris has been
One more:
Boris has been offering a different analysis:
https://www.facebook.com/enbfx
Has anyone else seen this?
Holy crap, so the last 512MB
Holy crap, so the last 512MB isn’t being utilized at all? WTF NVIDIA????
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23 hrs ·
Update regarding “GTX 970 memory bug”. Wrote another test to check how that slow 0.5 gb memory works and again it’s the same thing which driver do for a long time, that memory is stored in RAM instead of VRAM, that’s why it slow. Basically, this is standart behavior for the most videocards on the market (vram is physical vram + a bit ram). What it means on practice compared to another videocards? GTX 970 have 3.5 Gb of VRAM. What i see in articles with explanation from NVidia is half-lie and of course casual people are incompenent and better to not listen to them. I don’t think it’s something horrible to loose 0.5 gb, but it’s bad that NVidia hide such information (my own videocard with 2 gb or vram have access to 2.5 gb and nobody annonced it as 2.0 fast and 0.5 slow).
Nice article. Thanks.
Nice article. Thanks.
While I do believe this
While I do believe this article stands true for single GPU scenarios, the question of how bad the 0.5GB memory pool will affect SLI performance still needs to be answered.
With the current crop of games, a single 970 pushing 3.5GB+ VRAM will most likely yield unplayable FPS anyway. However for SLI users 3.5GB+ could be a daily routine.
A comparison between 980 SLI and 970 SLI can easily help us to find out the impact of the 0.5GB memory pool. You can easily remove stutters caused by SLI glitches from the picture by looking at the 980 SLI results.
I have GTX 970 SLI…have had
I have GTX 970 SLI…have had zero probles.
I play on Asus ROG Swift GSync @ 2560×1440.
You want me to try to do some testing?
Same thing happens with the
Same thing happens with the GTX 660/Ti. VRAM usage will run up to 1536MB but either stutter and go over – after which it’s mostly fine, with a very slight framerate hit and possibly more stutters – OR it will just bounce back down to about 1530MB and stay there.
Seems like the exact same thing is happening with the GTX 970 – usage up to 3584MB and then a stutter – where it either goes over or stays right at the 3.5GB limit.
Since nVidia aint doing the
Since nVidia aint doing the right thing. AMD is offering a discount if you want to return your 970 for an AMD card:
https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/560462075193880576
More lies from nVidia, wonder
More lies from nVidia, wonder how PCper will defend them on this:
—
https://www.facebook.com/enbfx
Update regarding “GTX 970 memory bug”. Wrote another test to check how that slow 0.5 gb memory works and again it’s the same thing which driver do for a long time, that memory is stored in RAM instead of VRAM, that’s why it slow. Basically, this is standart behavior for the most videocards on the market (vram is physical vram + a bit ram). What it means on practice compared to another videocards? GTX 970 have 3.5 Gb of VRAM. What i see in articles with explanation from NVidia is half-lie and of course casual people are incompenent and better to not listen to them. I don’t think it’s something horrible to loose 0.5 gb, but it’s bad that NVidia hide such information (my own videocard with 2 gb or vram have access to 2.5 gb and nobody annonced it as 2.0 fast and 0.5 slow). So sad that all my posts on the forums were trolled, fools are always the most active and agressive, hopefully it’s their own butthurt as they won’t listen to professionals.
You could also think about it
You could also think about it this way. For the 980, the vram is also taken up by things that do not need fast ram. Windows, drivers, etc.. If Nvidia’ new driver can use the 500mb for things that do not need fast vram,and use the 3.5gb for things that do, then the gap will narrow.
Windows OS is in charge of
Windows OS is in charge of that.
Nvidia would have to “hack” its own driver for each game to do that.
People who bought the 970 and don’t play commercially well known games are left out to dry because Nvidia would have to apply that driver hack or optimization to each game that’s ever released.
We aren’t dead yet which so software isn’t self aware.
It would be great if you
It would be great if you could compare frame times to a 290 and 290x.
Frametimes aren’t looking too
Frametimes aren’t looking too good there.
i’m pretty sure this isn’t
i’m pretty sure this isn’t about the last 0.5gb its more about the principle, it feels like Nvidia was just trying to keep it a secret. 99% sure their wouldn’t be a problem if the card had 3.5gb or they told us about the slower last 0.5gb and said its performance is decrase was negligible.
Bye bye magic driver
Bye bye magic driver 😛
http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-we-will-not-boost-geforce-gtx-970-performance-with-drivers/
They may still do that, but
They may still do that, but in silence. Peter from Nvidia clearly stated they are working on a fix, why would he lie? But then he could get some drops from management to dement it, because releasing this publicly they would confess their fault – and this could be problem for them. So now they may pretend everything is fine, no problems whatsoever, but in background they can optimize their drivers for 970… And once released, we will have no issues… A miracle 🙂 Maybe BS, but everything is possible 🙂
Playing Dying light last
Playing Dying light last night; I’ve found that it was a game that stopped at 3.5GB Vram and refused to use more. Outside of the CPU patch the dev’s are working on though; I didn’t have any hiccups using the GTX 970.
Geeks3d.com seem to have found an interesting point. OpenGL apps can use all 4GB of ram. They have DirectX vram test on their site and no matter what I tried I couldn’t get it use over 3.5GB.
Also interesting note; I opened up gpuz. Sitting at my desktop with dual 1080p screens I’m using on average 300MB of Vram, and with chrome open about 430MB.
It seems possibly UI elements are just sitting in this slower part? (huge speculation)
Win 7 x64 SP1, using lastest Nvidia driver. Wonder if Windows 8 can use all the memory?
Thanks for the continued
Thanks for the continued update on the 970 mem issue guys.. much appreciated.. this would surely help people get a fair picture and help in deciding on the purchase.. cheers
Try using Star Citizen for
Try using Star Citizen for the tests, it’s a super VRAM hog.
If you are updet with NVidia
If you are updet with NVidia for this.
Sign the petition and help people to get their money back:
https://www.change.org/p/nvidia-refund-for-gtx-970
I believe that people with
I believe that people with multi-monitor and 4k monitor set ups will run into these problems today. It will only get worse in the future. Sure the average gamer games at 1920×1200. Doesn’t mean that we aren’t upgrading to 4k or ultrawide.
What about row hammer?I
What about row hammer?I assume the 500 MB part is ddr3 variant?hopefully you guys will make an article about row hammer,so far may be only Intel fixed this (they re the one with a patent mentioning row hammer(2014)