Too much power to the people?
Does AMD have a problem on its hands with the power consumption of the new Radeon RX 480?
UPDATE (7/1/16): I have added a third page to this story that looks at the power consumption and power draw of the ASUS GeForce GTX 960 Strix card. This card was pointed out by many readers on our site and on reddit as having the same problem as the Radeon RX 480. As it turns out…not so much. Check it out!
UPDATE 2 (7/2/16): We have an official statement from AMD this morning.
As you know, we continuously tune our GPUs in order to maximize their performance within their given power envelopes and the speed of the memory interface, which in this case is an unprecedented 8Gbps for GDDR5. Recently, we identified select scenarios where the tuning of some RX 480 boards was not optimal. Fortunately, we can adjust the GPU's tuning via software in order to resolve this issue. We are already testing a driver that implements a fix, and we will provide an update to the community on our progress on Tuesday (July 5, 2016).
Honestly, that doesn't tell us much. And AMD appears to be deflecting slightly by using words like "some RX 480 boards". I don't believe this is limited to a subset of cards, or review samples only. AMD does indicate that the 8 Gbps memory on the 8GB variant might be partially to blame – which is an interesting correlation to test out later. The company does promise a fix for the problem via a driver update on Tuesday – we'll be sure to give that a test and see what changes are measured in both performance and in power consumption.
The launch of the AMD Radeon RX 480 has generally been considered a success. Our review of the new reference card shows impressive gains in architectural efficiency, improved positioning against NVIDIA’s competing parts in the same price range as well as VR-ready gaming performance starting at $199 for the 4GB model. AMD has every right to be proud of the new product and should have this lone position until the GeForce product line brings a Pascal card down into the same price category.
If you read carefully through my review, there was some interesting data that cropped up around the power consumption and delivery on the new RX 480. Looking at our power consumption numbers, measured directly from the card, not from the wall, it was using slightly more than the 150 watt TDP it was advertised as. This was done at 1920×1080 and tested in both Rise of the Tomb Raider and The Witcher 3.
When overclocked, the results were even higher, approaching the 200 watt mark in Rise of the Tomb Raider!
A portion of the review over at Tom’s Hardware produced similar results but detailed the power consumption from the motherboard PCI Express connection versus the power provided by the 6-pin PCIe power cable. There has been a considerable amount of discussion in the community about the amount of power the RX 480 draws through the motherboard, whether it is out of spec and what kind of impact it might have on the stability or life of the PC the RX 480 is installed in.
As it turns out, we have the ability to measure the exact same kind of data, albeit through a different method than Tom’s, and wanted to see if the result we saw broke down in the same way.
Our Testing Methods
This is a complex topic so it makes sense to detail the methodology of our advanced power testing capability up front.
How do we do it? Simple in theory but surprisingly difficult in practice, we are intercepting the power being sent through the PCI Express bus as well as the ATX power connectors before they go to the graphics card and are directly measuring power draw with a 10 kHz DAQ (data acquisition) device. A huge thanks goes to Allyn for getting the setup up and running. We built a PCI Express bridge that is tapped to measure both 12V and 3.3V power and built some Corsair power cables that measure the 12V coming through those as well.
The result is data that looks like this.
What you are looking at here is the power measured from the GTX 1080. From time 0 to time 8 seconds or so, the system is idle, from 8 seconds to about 18 seconds Steam is starting up the title. From 18-26 seconds the game is at the menus, we load the game from 26-39 seconds and then we play through our benchmark run after that.
There are four lines drawn in the graph, the 12V and 3.3V results are from the PCI Express bus interface, while the one labeled PCIE is from the PCIE power connection from the power supply to the card. We have the ability to measure two power inputs there but because the GTX 1080 only uses a single 8-pin connector, there is only one shown here. Finally, the blue line is labeled total and is simply that: a total of the other measurements to get combined power draw and usage by the graphics card in question.
From this we can see a couple of interesting data points. First, the idle power of the GTX 1080 Founders Edition is only about 7.5 watts. Second, under a gaming load of Rise of the Tomb Raider, the card is pulling about 165-170 watts on average, though there are plenty of intermittent, spikes. Keep in mind we are sampling the power at 1000/s so this kind of behavior is more or less expected.
Different games and applications impose different loads on the GPU and can cause it to draw drastically different power. Even if a game runs slowly, it may not be drawing maximum power from the card if a certain system on the GPU (memory, shaders, ROPs) is bottlenecking other systems.
One interesting note on our data compared to what Tom’s Hardware presents – we are using a second order low pass filter to smooth out the data to make it more readable and more indicative of how power draw is handled by the components on the PCB. Tom’s story reported “maximum” power draw at 300 watts for the RX 480 and while that is technically accurate, those figures represent instantaneous power draw. That is interesting data in some circumstances, and may actually indicate other potential issues with excessively noisy power circuitry, but to us, it makes more sense to sample data at a high rate (10 kHz) but to filter it and present it more readable way that better meshes with the continuous power delivery capabilities of the system.
Image source: E2E Texas Instruments
An example of instantaneous voltage spikes on power supply phase changes
Some gamers have expressed concern over that “maximum” power draw of 300 watts on the RX 480 that Tom’s Hardware reported. While that power measurement is technically accurate, it doesn’t represent the continuous power draw of the hardware. Instead, that measure is a result of a high frequency data acquisition system that may take a reading at the exact moment that a power phase on the card switches. Any DC switching power supply that is riding close to a certain power level is going to exceed that on the leading edges of phase switches for some minute amount of time. This is another reason why our low pass filter on power data can help represent real-world power consumption accurately. That doesn’t mean the spikes they measure are not a potential cause for concern, that’s just not what we are focused on with our testing.
Setting up the Specification
Understanding complex specifications like PCI Express can be difficult, even for those of us working on hardware evaluation every day. Doing some digging, we were able to find a table that breaks things down for us.
We are dealing with high power PCI Express devices so we are only directly concerned with the far right column of data. For a rated 75 watt PCI Express slot, power consumption and current draw is broken down into two categories: +12V and +3.3V. The +3.3V line has a voltage tolerance of +/- 9% (3.03V – 3.597V) and has a 3A maximum current draw. Taking the voltage at the nominal 3.3V level, that results in a maximum power draw of 9.9 watts.
The +12V rail has a tolerance of +/- 8% (11.04V – 12.96V) and a maximum current draw of 5.5A, resulting in peak +12V power draw of 66 watts. The total for both +12V and +3.3V rails is 75.9 watts but noting from footer 4 at the bottom of the graph, the total should never exceed 75 watts, with either rail not extending past their current draw maximums.
Diving into the current
Let’s take a look at the data generated through our power testing and step through the information, piece by piece, so we can all understand what is going on. The graphs built by LabVIEW SignalExpress have a habit of switching around the colors of data points, so pay attention to the keys for each image.
Rise of the Tomb Raider (1080p) power draw, RX 480, Click to Enlarge
This graph shows Rise of the Tomb Raider running at 1080p. The yellow line up top is the total combined power consumption (in watts) calculated by adding up the power (12V and 3.3V) from the motherboard PCIe slot and the 6-pin PCIe power cable (12V). The line is hovering right at 150 watts, though we definitely see some spiking above that to 160 watts with an odd hit above 165 watts.
There is a nearly even split between the power draw of the 6-pin power connector and the motherboard PCIe connection. The blue line shows slightly higher power draw of the PCIe power cable (which is forgivable, as PSU 6-pin and 8-pin supplies are generally over-built) while the white line is the wattage drawn from the motherboard directly.
Below that is the red line for 3.3V power (only around 4-5 watts generally) and the green line (not used, only when the GPU has two 6/8-pin power connections).
Rise of the Tomb Raider (1080p) power draw, RX 480, Click to Enlarge
In this shot, we are using the same data but zooming on a section towards the beginning. It is easier to see our power consumption results, with the highest spike on total power nearly reaching the 170-watt mark. Keep in mind this is NOT with any kind of overclocking applied – everything is running at stock here. The blue line hits 85 watts and the white line (motherboard power) hits nearly 80 watts. PCI Express specifications state that the +12V power output through a motherboard connection shouldn’t exceed 66 watts (actually it is based on current, more on that later). Clearly, the RX 480 is beyond the edge of these limits but not to a degree where we would be concerned.
The Witcher 3 (1080p) power draw, RX 480, Click to Enlarge
The second game I tested before the controversy blew up was The Witcher 3, and in my testing this was a bigger draw on power than Rise of the Tomb Raider. When playing the game at 1080p it was averaging 155+ watts towards the end of the benchmark run and spiking to nearly 165 watts in a couple of instances.
The Witcher 3 (1080p) power draw, RX 480, Click to Enlarge
Zooming in a bit on the data we get more detail on the individual power draw from the motherboard and the PCIe 6-pin cable. The white line of the MB +12V power is going over 75 watts, but not dramatically so, while the +3.3V power is hovering just under 5 watts, for a total of ~80 watts. Power over the 6-pin connector goes above 80 watts here as well.










hardware.fr reported this
hardware.fr reported this problem too. their review of 480 is really good.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/951-9/consommation-efficacite-energetique.html
Since this will likely only
Since this will likely only effect older/cheaper motherboards, they will probably just get away with it. Who’s to say your older system wasn’t just “unstable” under load, etc.
To Ryan and Allyn,
I have
To Ryan and Allyn,
I have some questions, hope you chaps don’t mind:
1. Would a 4GB version of the RX 480 have less of a power draw from the PCI-E slot compared to the 8GB version?
2. If we already bought a reference 8GB card, would lowering the power limit in WattMan alleviate the excess power draw from the PCI-E slot?
3. Should we be waiting for RX 480 cards with custom PCB designs having an 8-pin or two 6-pin power connectors to be safe?
1. Possibly, but minimally
1. Possibly, but minimally so.
2. If it can be adjusted low enough, it should.
3. Either that or a fix from AMD, which we believe to be coming.
There are some aftermarket
There are some aftermarket 480 cards with a 8 pin would they still have the same issue? And how big of an issue is this would the card fry my h97 motherboard? Also amd is saying that the card passed their testing and pci-sig’s testing so how is it possible that neither they nor pci-sig caught this?
They would only have the same
They would only have the same issue if they stuck with the exact same regulation config being used on the reference card, which is doubtful given the attention this issue has received by AMD.
Since this issue only just
Since this issue only just came up and started happening could they revise and remake the boards that quick to fix it is the question. Less already from the start changed it from the get go.
Possible to reduce to 1200Mhz
Possible to reduce to 1200Mhz or lower and low Voltage ? Did you test ?
I mean What is maximum Clock and voltage If Total power shall not be higher than 150W (75w from PCI-E, 75w from PSU) ?
I think the most obvious way
I think the most obvious way to fix this would be to lower the power limit, and then potentially lower the voltage to gain back the performance lost by lowering the power limit.
Just bought one of these not
Just bought one of these not unpacked it yet, should I be returning or what!! I this fixable by a BIOS update by AMD or hardware dependent??
i think yes , it’s possible
i think yes , it’s possible to reduce clock to 1200Mhz, low voltage
It might be fixable by bios,
It might be fixable by bios, Depends on how the card is setup which is only known to AIB makers and AMD if its a possible thing. Only other thing that would be 100% fix option would be to lower the clocks of the card down a little to get it under that 150 watt draw.
Reports of board takedowns,
Reports of board takedowns, sound cards toasted, black reboots, are rolling in.
Do not use this 480 on your am2 motherboards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhjC_8ai7QA&feature=youtu.be
yea ok…and why on gods
yea ok…and why on gods earth are you putting an RX 480 into an AM2
BOTTLENECK MUCH?!??
LMAO.
I just installed this RX 480 8GB into my socket 939 and it totally toasted my system.
WTF GUYSSSSSSSSSSS i just wanted to play WoW on MAX!!!
It’s a cheap card for cheaper
It’s a cheap card for cheaper systems
That’s why it’s an issue to beging with
Aside from that
As has been posted, it’s not the board itself, the traces are fine
It’s the contact pins, where the highest resistance is
So even high end boards would be affected
It’s just that no one spending 350$ and up would likely buy a 480
More a Vega for instance
Takt is 350$ and up on a
Takt is 350$ and up on a board
These analyses have been top
These analyses have been top notch. Putting that new testing equipment to good work!
I saw the youtuber Science Studio had issues with an old motherboard shutting down with the 480 you might be interested in, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhjC_8ai7QA
AMDonkeys who bashed GTX 960
AMDonkeys who bashed GTX 960 just got fked up.
Its possible Nvidia hit this
Its possible Nvidia hit this issue in the R&D lab when testing new gpu’s hence why most their cards that use 6/8pin used 30 some watts.
https://media.makeameme.org/c
https://media.makeameme.org/created/scorching-benchmarks-i.jpg
Does this happen only when
Does this happen only when overclocked?
It’s worse when overclocked,
It's worse when overclocked, but does happen under stock clocks as well, just not as badly.
I’m hoping they can fix
I’m hoping they can fix this. I’m afraid to buy this card I don’t want to burn out my x16 slot on my mobo is $120 h97I from asus (in 2014 price terms.) I don’t think it is an el cheapo board, but it is not as expensive as a z97 in 2014. I hope it can be fixed by flashing the card or something. if all of these reference cards end up having a voltage controller on the board that is bad, then hell I will wait for saphire’s custom pcb with an eight pin or buy a 1060 with an eight pin. I will not risk damaging my board a year or two from now.
Pretty much confirmed that
Pretty much confirmed that the power draw is off on the slot with the RX 480, but paraphrased from a foreign language forum I found this:
“What I find in PCPer strange:
On the same day the 960 comes as a post-test, which has supposedly only 2.5 amps on the 12V PEG (I have about 4 – as have the manufacturers with whom I have reviewed my values as well), but the RX 480 is back with 7.x ampere in the 960 review. They contradict themselves and strangely enough, no more currents are mentioned especially in the second AMD-conform measurement. Had those been identical to the first measurement, the second measurement setup is wrong and it does not change the facts.”
Could you comment/explain on that please?
Not sure what they are
Not sure what they are referring to in contradiction…? I clearly show spikes at 7A at STOCK SETTINGS right here on the RX 480:
https://pcper.com/image/view/71153?return=node%2F65670
@Ryan:
Someone from Tom’s
@Ryan:
Someone from Tom’s further elaborates (another article coming up soon apparently):
“What PCPer has however not really pursued further in the second article for RX 480: In the standard it’s NOT about the wattage, but the flowing currents. And they are also without the spikes in my measurements still extremely above the specifications.”
Put a 8 pin power connector
Put a 8 pin power connector on it for goodness sake!
And Ryan, thank you for page three where you test the GTX960 Strix and confirm that it DOES NOT exceed the slot limits like the RX480.
Raja: Ball is in your court.
They don’t need an 8pin
They don’t need an 8pin really, the 6pin PCI-e connection even though spec is 75watts. That plug can do beyond that so could keep the 6pin and look lower power and draw say 85-100 watts from it.
I agree with you.
While rated
I agree with you.
While rated to 75W, I am pretty confident they can pull 150W from the 6 wire connector without serious issues.
And if there are problems with it, the damaged part would be card or the cable, not the MB.
My cables can withstand more than 200W by awg, the problem as someone else has stated is the quality of the connection. Non soldered connections are always tricky, and they always get some oxide and dust with time.
It is not the same for the ones in the slot. They have smaller connection points (riskier), are essentially non fixable, and have worse cooling.
You do have to take in account that from the PS to the card, there is one connector on the 6pin and two connectors from the slot: the ATX power connector from PS to the MB and the slot connector. Both connectors have more resistance and heat up, and will drop voltage.
If you really want to reduce power consumption, you should use as much power from the 6 pin as possible, and using an 8pin connector or 2 6 pin is a great idea, less voltage drop=more efficient power use.
My wild guess is that they wanted to say “look, only one 6 pin power connector”, and this was lead by marketing.
We have to consider that AMD is risking all on this, and they are working under high pressure. Someone made a stupid decission, and they launched “as is”.
I am almost sure they knew they had this problem but hoped nobody would notice (as de 3.5GB vs 4GB memory issue in nvidia).
I agree with you.
While rated
I agree with you.
While rated to 75W, I am pretty confident they can pull 150W from the 6 wire connector without serious issues.
And if there are problems with it, the damaged part would be card or the cable, not the MB.
My cables can withstand more than 200W by awg, the problem as someone else has stated is the quality of the connection. Non soldered connections are always tricky, and they always get some oxide and dust with time.
It is not the same for the ones in the slot. They have smaller connection points (riskier), are essentially non fixable, and have worse cooling.
You do have to take in account that from the PS to the card, there is one connector on the 6pin and two connectors from the slot: the ATX power connector from PS to the MB and the slot connector. Both connectors have more resistance and heat up, and will drop voltage.
If you really want to reduce power consumption, you should use as much power from the 6 pin as possible, and using an 8pin connector or 2 6 pin is a great idea, less voltage drop=more efficient power use.
My wild guess is that they wanted to say “look, only one 6 pin power connector”, and this was lead by marketing.
We have to consider that AMD is risking all on this, and they are working under high pressure. Someone made a stupid decission, and they launched “as is”.
I am almost sure they knew they had this problem but hoped nobody would notice (as de 3.5GB vs 4GB memory issue in nvidia).
I agree with you.
While rated
I agree with you.
While rated to 75W, I am pretty confident they can pull 150W from the 6 wire connector without serious issues.
And if there are problems with it, the damaged part would be card or the cable, not the MB.
My cables can withstand more than 200W by awg, the problem as someone else has stated is the quality of the connection. Non soldered connections are always tricky, and they always get some oxide and dust with time.
It is not the same for the ones in the slot. They have smaller connection points (riskier), are essentially non fixable, and have worse cooling.
You do have to take in account that from the PS to the card, there is one connector on the 6pin and two connectors from the slot: the ATX power connector from PS to the MB and the slot connector. Both connectors have more resistance and heat up, and will drop voltage.
If you really want to reduce power consumption, you should use as much power from the 6 pin as possible, and using an 8pin connector or 2 6 pin is a great idea, less voltage drop=more efficient power use.
My wild guess is that they wanted to say “look, only one 6 pin power connector”, and this was lead by marketing.
We have to consider that AMD is risking all on this, and they are working under high pressure. Someone made a stupid decission, and they launched “as is”.
I am almost sure they knew they had this problem but hoped nobody would notice (as de 3.5GB vs 4GB memory issue in nvidia).
Yes! That 960 Strix addendum
Yes! That 960 Strix addendum is cathartic and hilarious. So often the comment sections are filled with vitriol and unsubstantiated counterarguments. It was wonderful to see article-level-scientific-method debunking of the green team bias argument(as it pertained to the 960 Strix in this case) that is prevalent every time AMD blunders.
Great job Ryan and Allyn.
Great job Ryan and Allyn. Even though I think Ryan may favor AMD, he didn’t cover or play down a very real problem. I used to be an occasional reader but you guys earned my respect. You guys are definitely in my favorites now.
I may support Nvidia and have been called a fanboy, but if Nvidia did something like this I’d expect it to be outed as well. No one wants to buy a “bad” card.
Everyone please do Allyn and Ryan a favor and stop posting repeats of stuff that he already explained. Proves you didn’t read article and prior posts.
Allen, thank you patiently
Allen, thank you patiently answering the exact same question about average power and peak power spikes. I too was a electronics troubleshooter for Hewlett-Packard’s Test and Measurement Division for 25 years so I know exactly what you are concerned about. I have seen browned traces, melted vias and degraded pins on card slots, mostly due to power issues (or stray lightning bolt discharges!)
Could this have been a one-of 480 card that somehow managed to draw much more power than normal due to say, overheating of the VRMs?
Everyone with capability to
Everyone with capability to measure slot power independent from the total has noted the overload condition. I believe it's four different sites so far. Toms' method (and the way they plot it) is overly emphasizing the peaks, but they do note the average.
This isn’t looking good for
This isn’t looking good for AMD…
I got the 480 yesterday and
I got the 480 yesterday and today my psu fried itself don’t know what was damaged, if anything waiting on a new power supply but I don’t think it was a coincidence, right enough my power supply wasn’t a known brand so that could be it but it has ran fine for the last year on a 960
Yea PSU is probably most
Yea PSU is probably most important piece in a computer build. It can make and break a computer. I sent a buddy a gtx780 I had laying around, he was using an old radeon 5000 series card. He had a super cheap 20$ chinese “680” watt PSU’s. Well you guess why the wattage is in quotes. Well needless to say his machine in total with that gpu shouldn’t been more then 400watts, maybe 350 at most and the 780 killed the psu.
I wouldn’t think it’s related
I wouldn’t think it’s related to this issue but rather the more overall power that the card draws. Cheap PSUs are rated on max power while good ones are rated on continuous power. A cheap psu can usually only sustain about half it’s rating.
Talk about
Talk about foreshadowing
http://i.imgur.com/ONM9hKM.gif