We haven't seen Windows 10 Redstone 2 yet but already we have some news about Redstone 3 which hints at the coming of the Surface phone. Microsoft is working on x86 emulation for ARM processors, allowing proper Windows programs and not just Universal Apps to work on ARM based machines. They pulled this off in the past with the switch from 32bit to 64bit applications, with Windows on Windows emulation and porting x86 to ARM and vice versa has been a long term project at Microsoft.
The possible issue that comes from this eventuality is the interface. Just like in a game ported from a gaming platform to PC, moving from an ecosystem with a limited input device to a platform designed with a mouse and keyboard will cause issues. The reverse tends to be worse, for instance Skyrim's abysmal inventory system exists specifically because it was planned to be released on consoles. Now imagine Excel or file management software trimmed down and designed specifically to run on a phablet, as well as on a PC. For more on this possible nightmare, check out The Inquirer.
"According to Mary-Jo Foley, the font of all knowledge Windows-wise, the company is looking at x86 emulation for ARM processors. It’s not a new idea, but it's looking likely for Redstone 3."
Here is some more Tech News from around the web:
- CMOS-compatible SiC qualifies for quantum technology @ Nanotechweb
- Bulldozers, sportsters, bangers: Rack your brains, HPC kids @ The Register
- Market for 10nm mobile chips to heat up in 2017 @ DigiTimes
- Software Defined Networking Fundamentals Part 2: Switches and Network Architecture @ Linux.com
- Locky ransomware is spreading on Facebook Messenger like chlamydia @ The Inquirer
- Monday morning machinima: watch the Saxxy winners @ Rock, Paper, SHOTGUN
- Ian Livingstone – The Past, Present & Future of the Game Industry @ Tech ARP
- INQ's ultimate Black Friday cheat sheet @ The Inquirer
The interface is still going
The interface is still going to be a mouse and keyboard. They are planning this for use with continuum.
I am leery to trust
I am leery to trust Continuum, working in a multinational for my day job which uses large data sets and analysis tools. We are already seeing questionable interface choices, as well as bad security decisions on Microsoft apps.
Hope you are right, though!
I’d rather just have an x86
I’d rather just have an x86 phone
You are not getting x86 on
You are not getting x86 on the phone and any ->Smart<- smart phone makers are NOT getting themselves under Intel's fat x86 thumb. There is a very healthy market for phone devices that make use of the ARMv8A ISA and offer plenty of value to billions of phone market users without the need for any x86 under Intel's control getting in the way of innovation. Look at Cell Phone graphics for one, that is way better than anything Intel overcharges for. To Hell with Intel and its x86 in any phone SKU! Ditto for M$ and it's brand of bi-modal madness! Look at those Intrel brand mobule radios, Apple has to gimp the Qualcomm radio in their latest iPhone SKUs to get it to underperform similar to Intel's radio crap! It's bad enough getting Intel's dog food graphics forced on the laptop OEM's, but that will change with Zen/Vega and who cares about any single CPU core IPC when its really the graphics that matter mostly from the GPU and not the CPU. If Zen is even close to Haswell in the IPC metric, the some Zen/Vega APUs will be great for laptops.
AMD’s Zen is becoming the
AMD’s Zen is becoming the next Barcelona repeat, complete with TLB like bugs.
Another sign that Windows
Another sign that Windows Mobile for ARM is losing more ground in the mobile arena. x86 emulation is going to be slower than the real thing.
If Balmer hadn’t cut corners
If Balmer hadn’t cut corners and dropped the architecture neutral requirement for NT (and later windows versions), this wouldn’t even be an issue.
NT 4.0 ran on x86, MIPS, ARM, and ALPHA.
You are incorrect. This isn’t
You are incorrect. This isn’t about Windows 10 running on ARM, this is about applications compiled to run on x86 running on ARM. Those are 2 very different things.
If the OS doesn’t support
If the OS doesn’t support other architectures, how the could apps?
Windows OS used to support other arch’s. They stopped doing that, so people stopped compiling for that target.
There really is no need to
There really is no need to run pure x86 applications on ARM, as there are plenty of ways to port over any pure x86 applications to run under Power8/Power and ARMv8A or other ISAs. The real problem is that we are talking windows desktop applications that use the windows 7/8.1/10/earlier APIs that are in fact x86 based windows applications. That requires the necessary windows OS/API subsystems to actually function and that’s quite a bit of abstraction levels in and of itself that requires a fair bit of overhead no matter the intended ISA that it runs under.
There is the other fact that any windows API based desktop applications require lots of windows OS API/code calls that are optimized for Intel’s brand of x86, under Intel’s brand of CPU hardware cache subsystems/etc. using Intel based compilers that are optimized for Intel’s CPU hardware. There are whole libraries of code created using these CPU optimization manuals for Intel’s specific x86 hardware so OS programmers can tweak their machine language code to not cause any undue CPU cache thrashing, or undue CPU execution resources utilization issues etc. These tweaks are baked into some of the windows OS kernel code and have to be re-factored when ported over to another ISA, and even AMD’s x86 ISA based CPUs have cache memory subsystems differences/microcode/other differences that need to be optimized for when compiling for AMD’s various x86 based CPU cores.
Add to all that the x86 16/32/64 bit ISA legacy bloat and that’s a whole other level of insanity inducing prospects for any emulation abstraction going from any CISC based ISA to any RISC based ISA. Some of this takes a very long time to sort out as the legacy windows OS API bloat and windows application bloat has had a very long time to build up around the x86 16/32/64 ISA over the years with respect to the windows OS/API/application ecosystem for both Intel’s and AMD’s brand of x86 16/32/64 ISA based CPUs.
You Mix windows RT and UWP
You Mix windows RT and UWP and what do you get! More Turd Polishing, you may even be able to get some shine on that turd but it still stinks on the inside and it’s basically crap. The Phone market is doing well enough with non M$ OSs and software running on non Intel CPU’s, and the ARM SOC’s have better graphics than Intel’s way overpriced dung.
Let’s keep WinTel out and the innovation in for Phones. If there is to be any x86 let it be of Zen/Vega Laptop APU kind and running a nice Full Linux OS distro.
M$ is just rolling a small turd down a mountain sized pile of cow dung, it’s only going to become a larger Ball-O-Crap as the layers of stinky abstraction build one on top of the other!
Relax, neckbeard. It’s not
Relax, neckbeard. It’s not 2004 anymore.
This isn’t just about Surface
This isn’t just about Surface Phone. This is about the performance increases of ARM CPUs that dwarf those of x86.
Monopolistic, anti-consumer Intel has been sitting on their laurels delivering a 5-10% yearly CPU performance increase, while ARM has been delivering at least a 40% increase. This tells you that no matter how much of a head start x86 has in terms of CPU performance, ARM will eventually catch up and surpass x86.
ARM CPU performance is doubling every two years, just like Moore’s Law says it should. Intel CPU performance is only 30% more than what it was 4 years ago. ARM gets more than that much perf increase in a year.
ARM CPUs catching up to Intel is not ~going to~ happen, it has already happened a year ago. With the launch of iPad Pro a year ago, ARM CPUs caught up to dual-core U-series x86 processors (not just the Core Ms). AND they did it without active cooling and in a tablet chassis that’s far more constrained than that of a laptop or ultrabook.
Then iPhone 7 launched which is even faster than the iPad Pro and delivers that performance in a freaking phone form factor. Again, without active cooling and fans.
It will take two years or two generations for ARM processors (at least those designed by Apple) to catch up to quad-core processors from Intel. After that, it’s game over for those lazy anti-consumer c***s.
After that, ARM will keep doubling in performance every two years and crush x86. Meaning there may not even be a need for an exodus of x86 programs porting to ARM, as ARM will have the extra horsepower to straight up emulate x86.
All traditionally x86 form factors: ultrabooks, laptops, mini-PCs, all the way up to high-end desktops, will become ARM-based and not one bit constrained in performance or utility by this fact.
And Intel have no one but themselves to blame.
Don’t forget the race at the
Don't forget the race at the bottom as well. ARM is more powerful in the extremely low power market than Intel even dreams of in the x86 market. I'm not finding more recent stats in the quick look I did but in 2014, "About 4.3 billion people, 60 percent of the world’s population, touch a device carrying an ARM chip each day." and "12 billion ARM-based processors were shipped in 2014".
They are vastly more immense than most realize.