Conclusion
Performance
While the process itself is not totally without risk, the temperature delta from before and after he procedure makes the relidding process worth the risk. At stock settings, the point can be made that the temperature is not too bad in the processor's factory configuration, but that argument begins to break down as you push the chip to its overclocking limits. The 20C decrease in the maximum core temperature speaks volumes on its own.
Pricing
As of March 02, the RockIt 88 De-Lid Kit can be found at Amazon.com for $38.00 with free shipping, as well at the RockIt Cool Store for $38.00. Note that if you buy it through RockIt Cool directly, the De-Lid and Re-Lid Kits are listed separately.
The Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra thermal paste can be found at Amazon.com for $13.31 with free shipping.
Conclusion
While there is risk inherent in tinkering with the heat spreader and die of the Kaby Lake processor, the use of a delidding device like the RockIt 88 De-Lid Kit reduces the potential for damage significantly over other delidding methods (such as the vice method explored in the previous article). The temperature decrease from simply cleaning and reapply high performance thermal paste to the die to heat spreader interface was significant enough to remove a stability factor from overclocking. The maximum core temperatures of 94C+ while overclocked to 5GHz put the system on the razor's edge of stability. Reducing that down to 74C alleviates the temperature stress on the processor and board components, increasing their lifespan. Further, I was able to push the chip to 5.1GHz after the modifications which is the fastest processor speed I've seen on my test bench up to this point.
Yay, Morry’s back!
Yay, Morry’s back!
Great article guys!
Great article guys!
I think the impressive thing
I think the impressive thing is that not only did you receive a 20 degree delta on hottest temps, but how much easier it is to do with these kits now.
Though the fact the Ryzen IHS and TIM is already pretty great means you dont need to do this etc etc.
Very true there. AMD took
Very true there. AMD took the solder route, similar to what Intel does with their LGA2011 processors. Makes heat transfer and dissipation much more efficient.
Intel TIM: Thermal Isolation
Intel TIM: Thermal Isolation Material, it works as advertised 😀
joking aside….
I think it is a nearly a crime that intel can sell $300+ dollar cpus without proper TIM. It seems that the material they used is even worse than ketchup.
@Morry, do you have any tips for us about the expected lifetime of the Coollaboratory Liquid Metal? Is it advised to re-apply after a year? And would you then recommend using the adhesive to glue back the heat spreader?
Liquid metal application
Liquid metal application should last for the life of the proc. This should be a "one and done" type procedure. You could do it more then once, but every time you crack the heatspreader off the PCB, you risk ruining the proc.
As far as re-adhering the heatspreader to the proc PCB, I used black RTV. relaively cheap, easily found as your local walmart or automotive store, and is electronics and plastic safe.
You *could* try naked cooling the CPU die, but I wouldn't recommend it, especially after my failed attempted with teh 4770K….
When HardOCP did their
When HardOCP did their de-lid/re-lid testing on the 7700k/7600k processors, they attempted naked die cooling and it sounded really risky. Basically, the head spreader also spread the clamping force necessary to adequately seat the processor into the socket. Without the heat spreader, all that downward force is is isolated to the bare die unless you make some kind of shim. I think their results with bare die cooling was that it was only a few degrees better than just re-lidding with the better TIM, but not worth the added risk to the die.
“Intel TIM: Thermal Isolation
“Intel TIM: Thermal Isolation Material, it works as advertised :D”
TIM is fine, it’s the separation between the IHS and die surfaces that is the issue. If you delid and then relid and don’t even touch the stock TIM, you’d get the same improvement in thermal performance.
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/delidded-my-i7-3770k-loaded-temperatures-drop-by-20%C2%B0c-at-4-7ghz.2261855/page-23#post-34053183
While that forum post from a
While that forum post from a few years back remains relavent to the conversation, it discussed delidding of an entirely different processor. There may be an issue in the separation between IHS and die surface, but for the 7700 series, the TIM is most definately problematic.
Thanks…
@Morry, it feels like you’re
@Morry, it feels like you’re missing an image near the bottom of page 1.
We go from “Next, carefully snap the Re-Lid hold down..” to “At this point, you are almost done. Before applying the black RTV..” without showing the application of the RTV
Hopefully I’m not imagining things
yeah, I noticed that too.
yeah, I noticed that too. Unfortunately, I did not get a pic of the RTV applied to the heatspreader before putting humpty dumpty back together again. And I didn't want to press my luck after getting a good mating…
True, a good mate is hard to
True, a good mate is hard to find.
Maybe moving the picture with the headspeader down so it sits above “Screw the center screw into the torque plate and then carefully fix the torque plate in place over the…” would help?
Good idea, thanks for the
Good idea, thanks for the input…
Morry – Do you have any
Morry – Do you have any recommendations for a thermal paste that would last for years like the original TIM would? My only concern with de/re-lidding is you might need to reapply the paste in 2-3 years as it does dry out over time..
not entirely sure. Some
not entirely sure. Some reports say that liquid ultra does degrade within a year, but on most of those forum posts, people were using direct die cooling without an IHS installed. That introduces direct air contact as well as possible humidity affects. The IHS would better protect the die area and the TIM from "open air" type affects…
Good point. Thanks!
Good point. Thanks!
Morry, it looks like the
Morry, it looks like the original heatspreader adhesive application left a small air gap. The adhesive does not appear to make a closed loop all the way around the perimeter of the heatspreader. Did you replicate this when you re-adhered the HS to the PCB? If so, doesn’t that allow air under the HS and potentially cause the open air/humidity issues?
I’m not sure if I left the
I'm not sure if I left the gap when I resealed it. While it is true that the gap would leave a section for air exchange, the IHS is very securely fixed to the PCB surface, so the gap is minimal. So it still wouldn't be as greatly affected as a naked die would…
They leave an opening to let
They leave an opening to let out air pressure created as the die heats up. Old processor IHS’s used to have a small hole for this.
Sorry your onclusion is
Sorry your onclusion is wrong. Conclusion should be that Intel is doing shit this time. How come an experienced CPU manufacturer like Intel does not make it better than all what they did in the past? Someone at Intel is paid way too much and should be fired. Teenagers still at school can do better.
Scotch tape… for real?! You
Scotch tape… for real?! You never heard of ESD i take it.
From now on use Anti Static Tape. Kapton Tape is my choice.
Nevertheless, delidding IHS
Nevertheless, delidding IHS voids warranty, and may possibly damage CPU unless he/she uses proper delidding tool.
Be careful with that Gallium.
Be careful with that Gallium. It eats aluminum and corrodes copper.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-club-guide/14340#post_19550310
Learn some stuff,
Learn some stuff, guys:
http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/
When you consider the thermal density of these small dies, it is much easier to have micro-cracks in the solder due to constant thermal cycles, which will increase the chance of killing the CPU. That’s the reason why Intel doesn’t solder their mainstream chips ever since Ivy Bridge. They could get away with it with sandy because it was on a larger node.
While paste doesn’t perform as well as solder, it eliminates this issue, which is why the Engineers went with it.
The reason why liquid metal wasn’t used is because it was not necessary. As you can see in most reviews, you’re only gaining a few degrees from your typical paste vs. liquid metal. Hardly meaningful from a temperature standpoint, and especially from a cost standpoint. Remember, Intel is making hundreds of thousands of these CPUs, and liquid metal isn’t cheap, nor is it as easy to apply to a product as paste is.
The reason why we are seeing increased temperatures isn’t primarily because of the TIM used, but because of the gap between the heatspreader and the die. The glue they use to stick the heatspreader to the die raises it away from the die. As you can see in PCPer’s picture, they took all of that glue off, so of course heat transfer is going to be more efficient due to it being closer. But doing so greatly increases the risk of damaging the die, but so does delidding.
4.8GHz is very easy to get to
4.8GHz is very easy to get to with a decent cooler and airflow. So I’d be looking at a 300MHz increase if all goes well, or a 6.25% increase, for about $50.
On a CPU limited game at 50fps that’s an extra 3.1fps. On a compiler run that’s CPU limited it’ll be 56.5 seconds instead of 60.
I love reading this stuff but I guess I’m old and jaded anymore, it’s cool for bragging rights though 😉 Thanks for the write-up and the pictures, I like that you kept it so concise and informative.
Yeah, exactly.
It’s why I
Yeah, exactly.
It’s why I don’t bother to overclock any more.
However, I have one of those Eurocom X9E3 laptops using a desktop i7-7700k processor and before I delidded and used some OCP I had around from an old overclock project I was throttling at 99C under full load in a 21C room.
After delidding and OCP application (using standard Arctic Silver 5 between the top of the HS and the heat spreader) it max’s out at 78C, no throttling and idles at 34C instead of 40C in similar conditions.
So if you are having cooling issues and can’t use a better CPU cooler (as I couldn’t, laptop and all) a delid and OCP does seriously help out.